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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 6, 2008 2:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Absolutely it was a conspiracy! There isn't enough time in the world to go over the evidence that proves this. Eyewitness after eyewitness after eyewitness ( many but not all of died shortly after )saw the smoke and heard the shot coming from in FRONT of him. Also, his brain blew out BEHIND him. How the F does something blow that far out of an entrance wound? It doesn't. Also, ask anybody who knows anything about guns and ballistics and ask them about that particular rifle and what ammo was available for it then and see what they tell you about accuracy. Then the number of bullets that were fired does not jibe with what they " claim", there's the guy who got hit with a richochet, then a pristine bullet was found later? Then GEEZ, don't you find the connections surrounding Jack Ruby and Oswald to be more than strange?

I'm not a crackpot and I don't believe evry version of the conspiracy theories but you'd have to be completely ignoring evidence to not see he while he was hit from behind he was killed from a front shot.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 6, 2008 5:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

So, is it ok if my Cuban friends visit with my cousin from Sicily when they go to Anchorage?

...how dare you imply it wasn't a lone gunman acting alone with no backing from any other interests.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 6, 2008 8:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Both the Cubans and Mafia surely had motive and were probably involved at some level( especially the Cubans ) l but they never would have had the connections to pull off what they did. The Mafia wouldn't have had fake agents dispersing the scene, neither party could have had the clout to have unkown people stepping into the autopsy and lo and behold his brain disappears. DISAPPEARS! The PResident of the United States! They didn't mishandle the OJ evidence even this bad. Inspite of the mega amount of evidence of ties and motive, this thing stunk and still does of a cover up at levels that only people who have clearance and connections or USED to have clearance and still had friends could have pulled off. This was cold warrior hawk shit. No doubt in my mind.

Regardless, there is NO way one guy, oswald or not( even a trained expert sharpshooter with the best weapon ) could have pulled that off.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 6, 2008 9:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

You know how everyone alive at the time can recall exactly where they were when they heard the news JFK was shot?

George W's daddy can't. Wonder what he went on to do in the years after....Prescott's baby boy.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 6, 2008 8:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Both the Cubans and Mafia surely had motive and were probably involved at some level( especially the Cubans ) l but they never would have had the connections to pull off what they did. The Mafia wouldn't have had fake agents dispersing the scene, neither party could have had the clout to have unkown people stepping into the autopsy and lo and behold his brain disappears. DISAPPEARS! The PResident of the United States! They didn't mishandle the OJ evidence even this bad. Inspite of the mega amount of evidence of ties and motive, this thing stunk and still does of a cover up at levels that only people who have clearance and connections or USED to have clearance and still had friends could have pulled off. This was cold warrior hawk shit. No doubt in my mind.

Regardless, there is NO way one guy, oswald or not( even a trained expert sharpshooter with the best weapon ) could have pulled that off.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 7, 2008 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Sorry, JOTS, missed all the follow up. I don't claim to know all the details, and clearly you are up to speed, but my take on this, and many others of a similar nature, is simply the following: knowing so many federal employees I am unwilling to give them the credit that would be req'd to keep something like this under wraps. All of my study of history of all the intelligence agencies of all the nations over the past 100 yrs adds up to one simple truism: not one of them at any time or place has been able to "pull off" the many, many different conspiracy theories attributed to them.

They just aren't that smart. It always comes out, one way or the other. Cover ups always unravel. The facts supporting this one just don't make a convincing case.

We are left assessing MOTIVE as the primary force behind our acceptance of the theory (and with that, I have no problem--I do agree that all parties pointed to had motive, and I agree that all parties would have done it without a second thought, but those two starting points are inadequate).

Just MHO. The only aspect of the facts I do have some experience with concern the actual shooting. Having studied forensic medicine, the evidence vis a vis the wound, etc., is equivocal, and far from convincing either way.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 7, 2008 3:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

I dont think your comparing apples to apples Tell. We're not talking DMV workers here. The CIA has overthrown many a leader and installed their guy and gotten away with it. As far as cover ups allways being revealed, study the evidence and find out how many witnesses and people connected " mysteriously" died. Yeah I know it sounds far fetched BUT not as far fetched as when you go down the list.Being that we dont even know who everyone was involved, who do you know that they didn't mysteriously disappear too? Regardless of who anyone believes was behind it or could have covered it up there are some things that can not be denied. WAY too many witnesses saw and heard the shots coming from behind the fence on the now catch phrase mocking conspiracy theories the " grassy knoll." A BUNCH of credible witnesses saw it. Then there's the guy who was military and standing by the fence with his back to it, shot whizzed right by him and he immediately ducked. Tell him it didn't come from behind him ( shooting towards the front ).

Whatever the case I can not understand how anyone can deny shots came from in front. His brain blew out the back of his head. The original Dr. who was doing the autoposy ( but was removed by some mysterious "Dr." who claimed to have Govt. clearance or authority ) said many times where the EXIT wound was and it was in back. So therefore, regardless of what people want to believe, more than one person involved equals a conspiracy by definition.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 7, 2008 3:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Actually, that is my point. Compare the CIA operatives you know to the DMV employees...seriously.

It's not like the one is a group of morons and the other a group of rocket scientists...Do you know how easy it is to get in? Well, okay, they're both morons...

They are roughly equivalent. Same for KGB, HMSS, etc., etc.

I just don't give them that much credit.

Notice, doing it is one thing, getting away with it another, BUT keeping it secret is one that ALL of them fail at, and that is an altogether different point.

As for the other point, take some human remains to a target site and try it. I am serious...well, not really; use one of Dire's bovine friends. You will be surprised at the results you find. I have considerable experience with firearms (not that I am proud of it, but nonetheless) and with forensic medicene. The facts in this case are equivocal.

But, truly, Johnny, I am confident I won't convince you, and I enjoy kicking it around--hope we are cool on that front. At least we know a conspiracy theory worth endorsing is the power of a GROK to stop the Pats!

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 7, 2008 3:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Fanning the flames....

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm

Funny little fact about that Zapata oil company - first ones to hit oil in Kuwait. Who ran the same?

And yes, the Kuwaitis were slant-drilling into Iraq back in the early '90s and stealing Iraqi oil when Ambassador Joseph Wilson met with Hussein to assure him that it was a matter between the two countries. Same as it ever was ....

Like the funny little fact that Schwarzkopf's dad was handling intelligence for the Shah in Iran back in the 50's - what was that Suez Canal crisis?

As Gil might say, "John Foster Dulles ain't nothin' but the name of an airport now."

...up to $123 a barrel today. Holding hands with the Wahabbists at the gas pump....

Smi2les to all you titoists....

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 7, 2008 4:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Hey BD--all the more fire to the flames, check out "Siege of Mecca" to find the answer to current problems vis a vis the Saudis...

But as I note above, it's all there to be found in black and white. A better kept secret was never to be found. IE, failed miserably.

It's just human nature--secrecy is not something we do well. Nor do any species. Deception is always a short term phenomenon.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 7, 2008 4:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

What you say about federal employees really struck home - I can see someone coming up with the idea and trying to hatch a plan but then being able to keep the lid on it and actually execute it efficiently is the problem. That said, the JFK thing just raises more and more questions. It's a whole lot harder for me to wrap my head around the whole 9/11 was an inside job deal. Then again, I never belonged to Skull & Bones or got invitied, yet, to Bohemian Grove.

But my money does say something about a new world order....
The Trilateral Commmission and the John Birch Society are tapping my phone. I'm not paranoid if the fluoride in my tap water is being used to read my thoughts, am I? More tin foil for my skull....

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 8, 2008 6:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

I know--the 9/11 thing was endorsed by one of the AZ legislators, and the newsconference made her look like some kind of complete wacko...which I guess she is.

Did you catch Al-Queda lashing out at Iran for suggesting the Israelis did it? IE, "they just don't want to give us Sunnis any credit?"

Pretty good...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 7, 2008 5:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

i am more concerned whether the Celts will win the championship or not.

could care less how JFK got splattered, the NYSE runs the oil barrel rates, the CIA can and will do whatever the hell they want whether we or our elected officials like it or not, the Pats will win the superbowl this season (blow me WT and JOTS.... lol),Obama being ahead of Hillary shows me how fuckin clueless this country really is, MMA fighting rocks!!!!, and Mike Lowell is the coolest Cuban who ever lived.

there

i feel better now

oh yeah, and MA is about to raise the cigarette tax another buck, so it looks like it's time to quit that too.

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Poster: cush212 Date: May 7, 2008 6:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Poor baby...

;)

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 8, 2008 6:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Another CUSH sighting!

Good to see you...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 7, 2008 9:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

" could care less how JFK got splattered,"
If you really mean this, fuck you dire. We are no longer friends

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 8, 2008 6:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

granted JOTS, i did phrase it a bit for effect, but your resonse is a bit harsh.

sorry that i honestly dont care that much about how JFK was killed. it just doesnt matter to me, much like why Lincoln was assassinated. that shit happens many times all over the world. too far back in past for me. maybe interesting in a simply historical persective - but that's about it.

not sure why you took so much offense.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 8, 2008 2:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Yeah I guess I was harsh. Sorry about that. I guess it just bothers me when someone doesn't care. I don't expect people to obsess about it of course but to me it's a complete lack of really cherishing the " ideals" that this Country are SUPPOSED to be about. A lot of people hated Lincoln, not unlike JFK too but I firmly believe JFK wasn't killed by just one guy and people that are involved in what is supposed to be OUR Govt. were behind it. If I lived in a corrupt dictatorship ( wait a minute, I do )I might not care. I have a different view of patriotism. I don't feel the need to put flag decals on my car and bad mouth all other Countries and cultures, but I do feel compelled to care about things.

Sorry I flew off the handle at you. I just found your response to be really jacked up.

peace?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 8, 2008 4:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

no apology necessary at all and definitely peace with us my friend. i purposely "jacked up" my post just to be a brat. and yes, i was sober, unlike so many other posts in the past - lol.

i agree that we as Americans, and "citizens" of this Earth, have to care (about many things). It is just that certain things I care less about than others. I suppose my focus tends to be more environmental, spiritual, and human unity oriented. I take as a given governments will assassinate - even their own. Do I believe that is right?? usually, no. I just direct my energies in other realms (for better or for worse).

sorry for the misunderstanding. my "smirk" was not visible through the written word this time. i apologize for "raining" on your post - in hindsight, that was not too cool on my part, regardless of my intent.

hope all is well with you and the fam my brother.

peace

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Poster: high flow Date: May 8, 2008 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Hug it out??

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: May 8, 2008 5:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

tug it out????

oh, sorry, i misread that one - mea culpa

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 8, 2008 9:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

same to you man. I shouldn't have freaked. It kind of didn't help that I had just gotten done talking to some guy at the hotel who had this cold hearted take on Katrina, govt. constitution all those arguements and just could NOT understand the concept that if people are dying like that that the only thing that matters is helping them.

Glad we're cool again.

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Poster: high flow Date: May 7, 2008 10:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

Hey Johnny - It's sad that a past president died.....but sadder that the current president's actions have eroded our nation's(and the world's) respect for the office of President of the United States of America.



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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 8, 2008 4:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

both are sad to me but not as sad as what some people apparrently are too stupid or heartless to give a shit about.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 8, 2008 6:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: a day of reflection for me ( non Dead )

I am sure he didn't mean it--just pissed at us (PATS suck).

For what it's worth, I do care. I know that the Bay of Pigs was a huge problem and he did get us started in Nam (more so than Ike), but I am one that (though really too young) saw the way even my conservative parents and their generation felt about JFK, and that is something we haven't had since.

I don't have the answers to the event, and enjoyed kicking it around with you and BD. I think it tragic that he died, and clearly SOMETHINGS about the death are up in the air...

So, in any case, I appreciate your heartfelt analysis and input.